Pannier Bracket Bolt Broke - Page 9 - Ducati Supersport 939 Forum
 45Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #81 of 93 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
Ed K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: America
Posts: 5,019
Likes Received: 2555
@LowRyter Sorry you have to go through this...but good idea to check the work.

2017 Ducati SuperSport S
2015 Ducati Scrambler
Ed K is online now  
post #82 of 93 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 11:40 AM
Elbow Dragger
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Edmond OK
Posts: 1,363
Likes Received: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek View Post
I've scanned the installation instructions and combined the images into the attached pdf file. I hope that helps.
I can't really be sure if the installation by the dealer was the cause but I can't help wondering. 20Nm for the special bolts is not a lot of torque.

Edit: the file is too big I have uploaded the images instead.
Thanks so much. I appreciate all the effort it took to find that and scan it. I was shocked how loose the bolts were on the rack after I took it off yesterday. No doubt the previous owner or shop had it way tight. I did see the passenger pegs torque listed 30nm (22 ft lb) (+ what color Loctite not on mine?), that also surprised me.

I think the whole deal is meant to be bolted up with simple allen wrenches. I used a swivel ratchet to get it apart the first time.

I'll admit I was a little pissed at Ducati when they made me eat the bill and still wouldn't give me the torque values to prevent this from happening again. I am going to keep the rack off until I put the bags on. It's only 6 bolts and a 5 minute job.

John L

Ducs quack at midnight and 9am
LowRyter is online now  
post #83 of 93 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 11:45 AM
Elbow Dragger
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Edmond OK
Posts: 1,363
Likes Received: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed K View Post
@LowRyter Sorry you have to go through this...but good idea to check the work.
Thanks. I hope other members here can avoid what I went through. I'm keeping the rack off the bike when not using the bags.

I've seen several posts, including here and Youtube, that those lateral bolts are prone to shearing (certainly better failure vs the special bolts as I had). I think for sure they are too short. I noticed that the tech that reinstalled my brackets used the longer ones I supplied rather than original ones. Perhaps this was posted by someone here?


John L

Ducs quack at midnight and 9am

Last edited by LowRyter; 10-24-2019 at 12:15 PM.
LowRyter is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #84 of 93 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
Ed K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: America
Posts: 5,019
Likes Received: 2555
Yes, the vid in the post immediately above was posted on this Forum by a Forum member. As I recall, he was the first to report the shearing of this right-side, non-load bearing bolt, that connects frame pieces. This is exactly the same as what happened with mine. Also on the right side.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, the connecting frame pieces (on the right side of mine) don't align and I believe is causing shearing stress on the small bolt. Perhaps suspension flex could also be causing shearing stress, not sure.

I haven't gotten to it yet, but whatever the cause may be, I will bend the pieces to proper alignment, as well as replace the bolt with a 12.9 to see if that helps, and advise.

2017 Ducati SuperSport S
2015 Ducati Scrambler
Ed K is online now  
post #85 of 93 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 10:47 PM
Elbow Dragger
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Edmond OK
Posts: 1,363
Likes Received: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed K View Post
Yes, the vid in the post immediately above was posted on this Forum by a Forum member. As I recall, he was the first to report the shearing of this right-side, non-load bearing bolt, that connects frame pieces. This is exactly the same as what happened with mine. Also on the right side.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, the connecting frame pieces (on the right side of mine) don't align and I believe is causing shearing stress on the small bolt. Perhaps suspension flex could also be causing shearing stress, not sure.

I haven't gotten to it yet, but whatever the cause may be, I will bend the pieces to proper alignment, as well as replace the bolt with a 12.9 to see if that helps, and advise.
When I attempted to replaced mine, the right side does indeed bind. Again, you still might check the bolt length. I don't think replacement 20mm can sink completely, much less the supplied 18mm.

12.8 grade 20mm are available at Lowe's for $1/pair.

John L

Ducs quack at midnight and 9am
LowRyter is online now  
post #86 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-30-2019, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
Ed K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: America
Posts: 5,019
Likes Received: 2555
Finally got around to replacing last night that pesky little sheared right side bolt that connects the pannier frame pieces, with a 12.9.

Pain in the neck getting that sheared one out. When it broke this time, it didn't leave any of the thread to grab on to.

As I reminder, this is my third time replacing the right side. First replaced with the OEM bolt. Second with a stainless bolt. This time with 12.9. The interesting thing is the second time it broke, the panniers hadn't even been used! So I'm thinking it may be more related to frame flex (it seems also possible, but less likely engine vibrations) that is putting lateral stress at that connecting point.

We will see how the 12.9s hold up, and will report back. Each time I replaced both sides, although only the right side keeps shearing.

Tbh, I don't think those side supports are even needed...maybe they're just an extra safety feature if the main supports loosens for some reason. Whatever the case may be, it should have been designed with heavier duty bolts, or some sort of post/bolt arrangement.

2017 Ducati SuperSport S
2015 Ducati Scrambler
Ed K is online now  
post #87 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-30-2019, 10:57 PM
Elbow Dragger
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Edmond OK
Posts: 1,363
Likes Received: 672
Ed- Did you measure the bolt length (20mm vs 18)? The 20mm sink all the way in.

If the side supports aren't needed why would they break? On my bike, since the load bearing ones broke, side supports kept it on.

In my case, I've just taken the bracket off. It shouldn't take 10 minutes to reinstall it when I need the bags. But not convenient to take the bike to package store for a bottle of scotch. Hopefully the whole mess will stay together when I need it.

John L

Ducs quack at midnight and 9am

Last edited by LowRyter; 12-30-2019 at 11:02 PM.
LowRyter is online now  
post #88 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-31-2019, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
Ed K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: America
Posts: 5,019
Likes Received: 2555
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowRyter View Post
Ed- Did you measure the bolt length (20mm vs 18)? The 20mm sink all the way in.

If the side supports aren't needed why would they break? On my bike, since the load bearing ones broke, side supports kept it on.

In my case, I've just taken the bracket off. It shouldn't take 10 minutes to reinstall it when I need the bags. But not convenient to take the bike to package store for a bottle of scotch. Hopefully the whole mess will stay together when I need it.
Spec is 18mm, but these latest bolts I put on happened to be 20mm...and seemed to just barely fit due bend in the frame. To my eye, the 18mm, and even 16mm bolts, sink all the way through the thread.

Imo, the side supports bolts are not needed at all. And, as I mentioned above, my latest bolt broke not due to loading - it broke without the panniers even being mounted on the bike!

The main load bearing bolts are super strong...I could be wrong, but believe yours were installed improperly. I rode thousands of miles over some pretty rough roads with a non load bearing frame connecting bolt sheared, and it was still super secure even though it was very heavily loaded with tools and other paraphernalia. As mentioned above, I believe those side frames are there essentially for an extra measure of safety if other things somehow go wrong (as did in your case).

2017 Ducati SuperSport S
2015 Ducati Scrambler
Ed K is online now  
post #89 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-31-2019, 11:00 AM
Elbow Dragger
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Edmond OK
Posts: 1,363
Likes Received: 672
Ed, The bracket on my bike was over torqued exponentially. I didn't know that until you posted the instructions and saw the light torque figures. The original owner used hex sockets but instead they only need about as much pull as simple allen wrenches. Tighter isn't always better.

Hopefully the stronger 20mm bolts will help. That's what I have on mine after I researched and posted the 12.9 grade.

John L

Ducs quack at midnight and 9am
LowRyter is online now  
post #90 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-04-2020, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
Ed K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: America
Posts: 5,019
Likes Received: 2555
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowRyter View Post
Ed, The bracket on my bike was over torqued exponentially. I didn't know that until you posted the instructions and saw the light torque figures. The original owner used hex sockets but instead they only need about as much pull as simple allen wrenches. Tighter isn't always better.

Hopefully the stronger 20mm bolts will help. That's what I have on mine after I researched and posted the 12.9 grade.
Yeah, hope yours and mine both work! Since I've already installed mine, and I ride year 'round, will keep you guys posted.

2017 Ducati SuperSport S
2015 Ducati Scrambler
Ed K is online now  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Underseat bolt missing from factory Sharpizo Ducati Supersport 939 Issues, Problems And Complaints 17 11-03-2018 09:16 PM
Bolt connection space question Ducati-Ice Ducati Supersport 939 General Discussion 17 07-09-2018 06:40 AM
Upper shock bolt removal rummaggio Service And Maintenance 7 06-11-2018 06:00 PM
Rear shock lower bolt Derek Service And Maintenance 4 05-19-2018 10:32 PM
Trailering Bracket Ace Bongwater Johnson Ducati Supersport 939 Parts and Accessories 18 12-30-2017 09:49 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome