Keith Code is a god! Prove me wrong. - Ducati Supersport 939 Forum
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post #1 of 143 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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Keith Code is a god! Prove me wrong.

Ok,
Iím intentionally kicking the hornetís nest here. After some interesting and heated debate on another thread, it seems that there are some members on here that know better than Keith. Iím looking to get a debate started here and get us all thinking. Iíll be on my best behavior. 😇

My $.02 is this. Code breaks down how to control a motorcycle at speed in a way that is digestible for the average population. Concepts like SRís and target fixation are very simple and make it easy to deconstruct a riding incident. The track day instructors I have worked with all look to Code and most have attended his super-bike school.

The thing to remember is that one cannot succinctly summarize the physics of every possible situation in a series of books or classes. So yes, there are some situations where Codeís guidelines are best but not 100% law.

As an example, Iíve ridden with an instructor that has a prosthetic leg below the knee. He commented that it simply isnít possible to weight that peg. This doesnít prevent him from riding very fast or teaching Codeís theory despite not being able to use it when he turns left.

You can pound in a nail using a wrench or a hammer. Both will get the job done. You can also ride around a corner with your feet off the pegs. You may get a similar result as with ďproperĒ riding technique. Iím going to choose the best available tool for the job.

Code teaches a theory that casts a broad net and probably applies to everyone here even more so if you are new to bikes (not likely if you have a super sport 939) or have never had formal instruction. If you know better, please send me a link to your super bike school and Iíll gladly attend.
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post #2 of 143 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 11:51 AM
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Do you really want to go there?

Perhaps it's better to mention concept, theories, riding exercises, techniques, etc., rather than personalities.
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post #3 of 143 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 12:53 PM
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Read, watch, attend as many as you can. Take what you like and leave what you don't. I've adopted things from Ienatsch, Parks, Pridmore, and Code. Probably in that order. I was lucky enough to be friends with a few Class 1 Police riders when I lived in the UK. Probably learned more from them than anyone. I don't remember them talking much about bike handling techniques. More about reading the road and always being at the right speed, in the right gear, with the proper amount of brakes. I never saw any of them at extreme lean angles. But they could leave the rest of us standing any time they wanted.
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post #4 of 143 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Gill View Post
Read, watch, attend as many as you can. Take what you like and leave what you don't. I've adopted things from Ienatsch, Parks, Pridmore, and Code.
Bullseye!

Brilliant advice, Keith.

Mods, you can close this thread now.

So, lemme get this straight.

I twist this little tube, it gets loud, I go forward really fast and it makes me smile...is that how it all works?
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post #5 of 143 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 07:03 PM
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Ok I have no problem with this thread. This is the right place for this discussion to proceed rather than hijacking someone else's. I do have some issues with the interpretation of some of Codes teachings but I will still be doing his courses. I Know I will enjoy, Learn and improve. (if only because I have a racetrack to play and practice on) I would have done them by now if I had the time when the course was on locally. I am happy with the way I ride and don't think I would change much anyway. I cant honestly find any technical Fault With all the comments that John has written and I mostly agree. I think the Target fixation thing needs to be looked at in both ways. Yes Vision is key !!! it is essential and good practice to look through where you are going But Target fixation suggests that you have looked at something focused on it and then head straight for it. It is that you have messed up something and then your brain panics so you default to the save my ass mode which is straighten brake and hope. I am sure we all agree with this and Keith Code has Fcukall to do with it.
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post #6 of 143 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 08:05 PM
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I was going to go to California Superbike school while I lived in CA, but decided to have my buddy buy a dirtbike for me in WA and we went riding for a week. All the top riders seem to ride dirt in the off season, so I figured it would be good since it was my first time really riding off road. Plus, pretty sure I had a lot more fun for that week than at a couple day track school.


If you haven't done Yamaha Champ school (https://ridelikeachampion.com/) I'd recommend it. I did the one day course when they visited my military base and it was great. Super awesome group. Nick's book also has a lot of good and interesting stuff.
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post #7 of 143 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith Gill View Post
Read, watch, attend as many as you can. Take what you like and leave what you don't. I've adopted things from Ienatsch, Parks, Pridmore, and Code. Probably in that order.
Excellent advice.

But the problem as I see it is the beginner rider. If the various sources are presenting opposite ideas, not just slightly different, totally opposing, how does the beginner rider know which is correct?

The knowledgeable rider can work their way through picking and choosing. Perhaps just reinforcing what they already believe to be correct, picking up the odd 'gem'.

As an example, one of the most basic riding concepts. You have one source saying always roll on the gas in a corner with a strong warning rolling off will overload the front tire with loss of traction and likely crash. In contrast other sources are actively promoting 'throttle steering' (which involves deliberately rolling off the throttle at times) to control your line through a corner. How does the beginner rider make sense of these two completely different and seemingly irreconcilable ideas?

Not to leave punters pondering the above conflicting ideas, to me Moto3 racing provides the answer. Routinely riders on the very limits of traction get checked by other riders in corners in that crowded close racing. They clearly 'chop' the gas when forced to 'sit up' in the corner. What generally happens? Does the front tire load up and they instantly slide out, or if not physically knocked out, after a few shimmies of the bike quickly regathers and continue on? These are guys riding on the very limits of traction, not a typical road rider well short of the traction limits of modern quality sport/touring tires.
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Last edited by John; 10-18-2019 at 10:01 PM.
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post #8 of 143 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Do you really want to go there?

Perhaps it's better to mention concept, theories, riding exercises, techniques, etc., rather than personalities.
Yes. As noted when I said I was intentionally kicking a hornets’ nest. Enjoy!
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post #9 of 143 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 10:12 PM
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Yes. As noted when I said I was intentionally kicking a hornetsí nest. Enjoy!
you make 5
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post #10 of 143 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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But Target fixation suggests that you have looked at something focused on it and then head straight for it. It is that you have messed up something and then your brain panics so you default to the save my ass mode which is straighten brake and hope. I am sure we all agree with this and Keith Code has Fcukall to do with it.
You are correct. Codeís teachings donít cause you focus on what You donít want to hit. It is how the brain works. You focus on the danger at hand. Code just gave it a name and popularized the concept.

Great comments so far. Not yet convinced heís not a god.
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