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Discussion Starter #1
I am posting a photo and opening it up for opinions discussion and Critique. It was quite interesting and a bit of fun when someone else posted a mistake that they had done. I'm am quite thick skinned so no holds bared. I have quite a few interesting ones but I will start with this simple one taken this weekend on a great ride and see how it goes.
In this photo there is a distinct tyre line with the bike at some lean...………………………………......…….....
 

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This rider is what they call "crossed up." They have their butt shifted to the inside of the corner trying to adjust the CoG, but their torso is crossing over the tank and their head is nearly at the centerline of the bike. The rider probably feels like having moved so far over in the seat must be helpful, but in actuality most of their weight is still above the bike, which is causing a more extreme lean angle. It's like riding a dirt bike and standing over/past the CoG pitch it around a turn.

Street bikes work best when the rider gets under them. I'm guessing there are some good scrapes on the pegs and levers. That gets expensive pretty quickly from here.
 

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This rider is what they call "crossed up."
I know I’m guilty of that and intend to specifically work on it when I get home and get back on the track.

A mate who organizes track days bought a dryland trainer apparatus that allows a coach to correct a rider’s feet, knees, elbows, hands and torso without having to burn gas. I’m looking forward to spending some time on it when I get home.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
This rider is what they call "crossed up." They have their butt shifted to the inside of the corner trying to adjust the CoG, but their torso is crossing over the tank and their head is nearly at the centerline of the bike. The rider probably feels like having moved so far over in the seat must be helpful, but in actuality most of their weight is still above the bike, which is causing a more extreme lean angle. It's like riding a dirt bike and standing over/past the CoG pitch it around a turn.

Street bikes work best when the rider gets under them. I'm guessing there are some good scrapes on the pegs and levers. That gets expensive pretty quickly from here.
Hmmm really ? I think if you look closely and turn the photo so that the road is flat draw a center line through the bike from the back wheel you will find that the rider position is neutral and slightly on the inside of the bike. I do get your analogy though. Any thoughts on if the bike is breaking or accelerating before this point.
 

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Hmmm really ? I think if you look closely and turn the photo so that the road is flat draw a center line through the bike from the back wheel you will find that the rider position is neutral and slightly on the inside of the bike. I do get your analogy though. Any thoughts on if the bike is breaking or accelerating before this point.
The rider is indeed crossed up. His face should be down near the left mirror. Also, the rider’s torso is rotated towards the outside of the corner. Bringing the left shoulder back will allow the torso to rotate towards the direction of the turn and allow the rider to get his head and shoulders lower on the bike. Look at pictures of racers and how their shoulders are square with the direction of travel.

The result is the rider is currently using more lean angle than necessary. This is not dangerous at lower speeds. However, as pace quickens, more lean angle is required and a crossed up rider will run out of tire/grip. Getting off the bike allows the rider to stand it up in the corner staying on the fatter part of the tire where there is more grip.

The rider’s line is a little wide of the apex. Totally normal for public roads. This rider should be rolling on the throttle and looking for the exit of the turn.

Nothing that is going on in this picture is dangerous, just has room to improve. Try mounting a camera on the tail of your bike to record your movements. I found that to be really helpful myself.
 

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The rider is indeed crossed up. His face should be down near the left mirror. Also, the rider’s torso is rotated towards the outside of the corner. Bringing the left shoulder back will allow the torso to rotate towards the direction of the turn and allow the rider to get his head and shoulders lower on the bike. Look at pictures of racers and how their shoulders are square with the direction of travel.

The result is the rider is currently using more lean angle than necessary. This is not dangerous at lower speeds. However, as pace quickens, more lean angle is required and a crossed up rider will run out of tire/grip. Getting off the bike allows the rider to stand it up in the corner staying on the fatter part of the tire where there is more grip.

The rider’s line is a little wide of the apex. Totally normal for public roads. This rider should be rolling on the throttle and looking for the exit of the turn.

Nothing that is going on in this picture is dangerous, just has room to improve. Try mounting a camera on the tail of your bike to record your movements. I found that to be really helpful myself.
This describes the riders position perfectly. I’m guess @Rentedshoes has spent a lot of time on tracks and in classes that teach about riding fast safely.

I think the rider wants us to guess the bike was braking but in reality was accelerating. That’s my guess at least.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The rider is indeed crossed up. His face should be down near the left mirror. Also, the rider’s torso is rotated towards the outside of the corner. Bringing the left shoulder back will allow the torso to rotate towards the direction of the turn and allow the rider to get his head and shoulders lower on the bike. Look at pictures of racers and how their shoulders are square with the direction of travel.

The result is the rider is currently using more lean angle than necessary. This is not dangerous at lower speeds. However, as pace quickens, more lean angle is required and a crossed up rider will run out of tire/grip. Getting off the bike allows the rider to stand it up in the corner staying on the fatter part of the tire where there is more grip.

The rider’s line is a little wide of the apex. Totally normal for public roads. This rider should be rolling on the throttle and looking for the exit of the turn.

Nothing that is going on in this picture is dangerous, just has room to improve. Try mounting a camera on the tail of your bike to record your movements. I found that to be really helpful myself.
I suppose your describing what this rider (Me) should be doing, having the ideal body position for an appropriate corner at the correct speed and lean angle. Obviously this is not happening here But why ? the signs are there to see. Could it be that you owe me a deposit to my PayPal account ? :smile2:
just to show reference this is a couple of photos of earlier corners. (by the way at 6ft3 it's not possible to cram ones frame where the little guys can) care to try again.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
This describes the riders position perfectly. I’m guess @Rentedshoes has spent a lot of time on tracks and in classes that teach about riding fast safely.

I think the rider wants us to guess the bike was braking but in reality was accelerating. That’s my guess at least.
Yip you have the idea. It certainly looks like you described but its not the case. I will say that from what I've heard this manoeuvre is not what Keith Code would teach in his track classes. :wink2:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The rider is indeed crossed up. His face should be down near the left mirror. Also, the rider’s torso is rotated towards the outside of the corner. Bringing the left shoulder back will allow the torso to rotate towards the direction of the turn and allow the rider to get his head and shoulders lower on the bike. Look at pictures of racers and how their shoulders are square with the direction of travel.

The result is the rider is currently using more lean angle than necessary. This is not dangerous at lower speeds. However, as pace quickens, more lean angle is required and a crossed up rider will run out of tire/grip. Getting off the bike allows the rider to stand it up in the corner staying on the fatter part of the tire where there is more grip.

The rider’s line is a little wide of the apex. Totally normal for public roads. This rider should be rolling on the throttle and looking for the exit of the turn.

Nothing that is going on in this picture is dangerous, just has room to improve. Try mounting a camera on the tail of your bike to record your movements. I found that to be really helpful myself.
Re the tail mounted camera I have tried it but I am a bit too big and block most of the picture
 

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Re the tail mounted camera I have tried it but I am a bit too big and block most of the picture
Your butt is off the seat but your head is still above the handlebars. Your spine should be a straight line from your head to your butt parallel to the angle of the bike with your head where the mire would be. Here is a link to an article:

https://www.ofirmx.com/blog/2013-04-10/motorcycle-cornering-survival-reactions-and-proper-body-positioning/21

You may be in a better position the it shows but the pic below is what you should be at.
 

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Yip you have the idea. It certainly looks like you described but its not the case. I will say that from what I've heard this manoeuvre is not what Keith Code would teach in his track classes. :wink2:
As I said above, it might be the angle but your head is above the triple clamps in both pics.

I'm not a professional and not trying to argue points, just critiquing what I personally see as you asked for.
 

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You're still crossed up. I took the liberty of modifying your photos. The blue lines represent the bike angle, the green lines are your back/spine alignment. Roughly. I work nights and have been sipping on a couple of Daiquiris while re-familiarizing myself with GIMP.
 

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I have no idea about the photo and some of guys are talking over my head. It looks OK to me other than perhaps running a little wide.

Most confusing is the tire mark. Assume that it's rear brake and not power slide? What ABS and Traction Control?

Without the tire mark I didn't see anything to comment about.
 

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Correct style, wrong body position. It is not MM but whatever works. You achieve much more lean and likely cornering speed than I ever will. The body position must be the Aussie way. Doohan took a ton of victories with similar style. Was his riding position wrong? Maybe MM would think so - but I definitely dont.
 

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@Rhino
If you move your head to the side of the screen then your arm will naturally cross the tank, whereas in the pic you have your inner right elbow hugging the back of the tank and that's what causing you to have your back crossing both sides of the centre line diagonally.
Leg and feet position is good, a nice "L" is made with it.
Your problem is there is not much room to put that big body frame of yours and the SS is by design a very narrow bike.

My suggestion is that you focus on your head and outer arm position.
 

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@Rhino is obviously a really good rider, just watch his videos. That said, it's all a work in progress and we are constantly trying to improve cornering. For me, I'm not a big on moving my butt off the seat mostly because I'm old and less flexible these days, don't want to fall off, and am saving my knees for what's left of my golf game, but I digress. FWIW, I've been watching this guy:
For all those of you who are like me, he's saying just getting at least your body/head turned and correctly aligned with the bike and direction of travel goes a long way to increasing your cornering ability.
 

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In my track course, the style that they taught us made your chin almost leaning on your inner wrist, outer arm almost fully extended over the tank.

That allows your bike to stay up, ie less angle for the same speed. Taken to the extreme, your elbow should touch before your pegs...

That’s what Quartararo does, it seems.
 

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@Rhino
If you move your head to the side of the screen then your arm will naturally cross the tank, whereas in the pic you have your inner right elbow hugging the back of the tank and that's what causing you to have your back crossing both sides of the centre line diagonally.
Leg and feet position is good, a nice "L" is made with it.
Your problem is there is not much room to put that big body frame of yours and the SS is by design a very narrow bike.

My suggestion is that you focus on your head and outer arm position.
Yup. What i was taught in a track riding course earlier this year was to initially not try to hang your ass out at all but just focus on leaning your torso into the turn. By doing that, one almost automatically slides the butt of the seat as well. Obviously when going faster one needs to consciously move the butt to the side as well but it’s much easier if the movement starts from m/with the torso.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
You're still crossed up. I took the liberty of modifying your photos. The blue lines represent the bike angle, the green lines are your back/spine alignment. Roughly. I work nights and have been sipping on a couple of Daiquiris while re-familiarizing myself with GIMP.
Thanks Mate yes you are correct this photo was a while ago while I was practicing. this is the one time I wish I was smaller. I have tried and tried to get my top half over and lower. (and I have quite a bit since this photo ) but I don't think I will get to that position without being extremely cramped which affects my balance. I feel if you can let go of the bar in a lean then you and your bike is in the correct position. May not meet Photo worthy but correct
 

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