Preload and rider sag confusion!
41 - 50 of 50 Posts
Joined
·
517 Posts
I just checked the spring, and it’s the stock 105 N/mm one. I asked this same question on another forum and was so fortunate to get a reply from someone who works for Öhlins at their race department in Sweden (supposedly he’s been consulted during the development of the SS. According to him, normally no static sag would indicate a too soft spring. However, the shock in the SSS doesn’t have a top out spring, which with a stock spring rate that’s on the heavier side for my weight (80 kg in the flesh) can give the behaviour I mentioned. That is, no static sag when correct rider sag has been set doesn’t have to be an anomaly in this case.
John, which spring do you have? Stock? No issues getting reasonable sag?
John, which spring do you have? Stock? No issues getting reasonable sag?
Joined
·
517 Posts
Thanks for the input! Öhlins recommends less sag than what you have, but I suppose your number is what you’ve arrived at with riding experience?
In my case, I’m still going on theory mostly as I haven’t had enough time to ride the bike, nor in suitable conditions, so for now I’ll stick with the default recommendations.
Joined
·
2,446 Posts
Seems like your getting there :smile2: I like to listen in to discussions on suspension as I think I have a good grasp and understanding of it. Yes you are right My SAG is slightly out of recommendations (By design) my front is spot on as I have swapped out my Front 80nm for 95nm to perfectly suit my weight, but the rear is still stock which I have tried to adapt. (my thinking was its adequate enough to carry 2 people so I should be able to make it work for me) In reality I need to upgrade the rear to a slightly stiffer spring so that I can set the SAG at around 30% without loosing precious ride Hight while compressed in corners . The rear spring is progressive and a harder spring will be better for me as it will compress less at the critical moments. If I ride normal everything is ok as is but when hitting it hard in the Twisties I have had everything scraping including the kick stand, gear lever and break lever. this is why I have set the rear as I have to avoid this happening till I get a new rear spring. Enjoy the journey mate the suspension on this bike is great and confidence inspiring when its set up right. good luck
Sure the Ohlins rep didn't say the shock has a top out spring? I wouldn't have expected it would. A heavy or long top out spring can influence sag numbers in a shock or forks.
Me, I don't even own an SS. I joined the forum when the bike was first announced, and just look in from time to time, contributing to 'generic' discussions if I think I can contribute. That's usually just suspensions as they all work pretty much the same (other than semi active, etc,) on any bike.
Joined
·
517 Posts
Yeah, positive, as he had previously (in another thread) praised the high spec of the SSS suspension components, but once he looked into the spec noticed it didn’t have a top out spring and therefore said he “might have to revise my previous statement regarding the high spec of the SSS’s (!) shock” (paraphrasing the original Swedish here).
Appreciate the advice on suspension btw, it’s probably the single most important part of the bike to get right.
Joined
·
1,741 Posts
So I’ve done a bit of researching, reading the article you’ve linked and several others and all are pretty much stating the same thing I highlighted above, and it took me a bit of pondering to figure out why my other experiences with suspension tuners, other reading I’ve done on the subject and my experience with the wrong spring on my CBR and I think I’ve hit on the factor that makes the above statement true as well:
You can get the rider sag measurement correct.
Really that’s it. The one part I was omitting in my analyzing the earlier statements and makes what was written make sense.
That’s why I like these discussion, they make a person think.
Anyone wanting to learn more than the basics of how to adjust their suspension, or to even better understand just the basics, I highly recommend the following series of videos. They are now a couple year old, but the information is as relevant as ever.
They are in my mind by far the most informative series of videos that I know, narrated by an obviously high-knowledgeable expert (the owner of Traxxion Dynamics).
There are 20 videos in the series, with each 'Chapter' clearly marked and easily found with a Google search. Sometimes the next in the series will load in the correct order, but often it will jump way ahead, so just be aware that at the end of each one check that the next is the correct one, as you may need to exit and manually find the next in the sequence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=403&v=ywkzj1x4YE8
They are in my mind by far the most informative series of videos that I know, narrated by an obviously high-knowledgeable expert (the owner of Traxxion Dynamics).
There are 20 videos in the series, with each 'Chapter' clearly marked and easily found with a Google search. Sometimes the next in the series will load in the correct order, but often it will jump way ahead, so just be aware that at the end of each one check that the next is the correct one, as you may need to exit and manually find the next in the sequence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=403&v=ywkzj1x4YE8
Chapter 13 (link below) is the most relevant to this topic. I should highlight I've never previously watch it as someone would easily believe I've just been regurgitating the video in previous posts, so similar is the video.
Truly never watch it before. If I had I would have just posted a link to it and said ....'watch this' instead of doing all that typing.
Truly never watch it before. If I had I would have just posted a link to it and said ....'watch this' instead of doing all that typing.
Joined
·
517 Posts
Well, I’m at just over 2000 km on my 950S but haven’t gotten around to setting sag properly just yet. I was feeling quite ok with the settings as they were from the dealer but now after setting comp/rebound to default settings front and rear and setting front sag to about 30%, the difference is quite noticeable! It was feeling a bit wallowy before but much more planted now. That is, I exaggerated sag and on the rear, because I wanted to se what it felt like, so currently at around 25% rear sag. Although I like the front heavy stance for the increased agility, I think that was way too much.
now, some of the difference is surely because I turned down traction control and abs a notch each, to be less intrusive, but I did feel I was pushing the front too much in my favourite highway on-ramp (a tight right corner opening up towards the entrance onto the highway itself). Previously it was planted through out. I also had more noticeable feelings of the rear stepping out on corner exit but surely that is mostly because I lowered DTC sensitivity (I know I know, stick to one change at a time). I should probably dial it back up to default setting to get a proper idea of what effect the adjusted sag really had on the bike.
anyway, set your sag and double check the suspension settings, folks. May have a bigger impact on your driving than what you think!
now, some of the difference is surely because I turned down traction control and abs a notch each, to be less intrusive, but I did feel I was pushing the front too much in my favourite highway on-ramp (a tight right corner opening up towards the entrance onto the highway itself). Previously it was planted through out. I also had more noticeable feelings of the rear stepping out on corner exit but surely that is mostly because I lowered DTC sensitivity (I know I know, stick to one change at a time). I should probably dial it back up to default setting to get a proper idea of what effect the adjusted sag really had on the bike.
anyway, set your sag and double check the suspension settings, folks. May have a bigger impact on your driving than what you think!
41 - 50 of 50 Posts
