Reverse (GP) Shift Pattern

9574 Views 34 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Motoaudiodoc, May 3, 2018

melba

Discussion Starter · Jun 10, 2017

I am used to reverse (GP) gearshift pattern rather than street pattern. On my previous bike (Panigale) I managed to change it but had to get a different shift rod with a reversed micro-switch for the Q/S. Keep in mind the 899 Panigale quick shift was only Upshift. I would like to check whether it's possible to reverse the shift pattern on my SS and as the micr-switch operates up and down, I'm wondering if anybody knows whether it would be necessary to change the switch or whether it should still work with reverse pattern? I'm thinking about trying it but don't want to risk stuffing up any part of the electronics!! - Any thoughts would be welcome

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mercer854

· #2 · Jul 26, 2017

S

melba said:
I am used to reverse (GP) gearshift pattern rather than street pattern. On my previous bike (Panigale) I managed to change it but had to get a different shift rod with a reversed micro-switch for the Q/S. Keep in mind the 899 Panigale quick shift was only Upshift. I would like to check whether it's possible to reverse the shift pattern on my SS and as the micr-switch operates up and down, I'm wondering if anybody knows whether it would be necessary to change the switch or whether it should still work with reverse pattern? I'm thinking about trying it but don't want to risk stuffing up any part of the electronics!! - Any thoughts would be welcome

Surprised there've been no replies to this. Would have thought all the racy types with their DQS systems woulda been all over this. I loath the DQS on the street, it's a Touring bike for Pete's sake, but would readily use it on the track w/GP Shift.

Don't know if the Triumph guy ever bought his SS S, but I get his concern.

Z675R said:
I'm considering buying a SSS. (Supersport S) and wondered if the stock rearset can be switched to GP shift (1 up, 5 down). Or if anyone knows of an aftermarket rearset that does the same thing. I have GP shift on my current bike, a Daytona 675R, that will become a full time track bike when I get a more street suitable bike. Hoping to stay consistent with my shift pattern.

Reversing the shifter mechanically isn't a big deal, but looks like it might take at least trimming a bit off or removing the plastic countershaft sprocket cover to allow the countershaft shift arm clearance if inverted, and the use of a much longer threaded rod to provide the proper angles for the shift lever and shift arm.

Normal enough, but your question about the DQS switch is the right one. I'll admit I'm real new (day 1) as a SS S owner, but I plan to be at the track in 2 weeks, so will be looking at this. Simplest short term fix would be to remove the DQS (how??) and reverse the mechanism with some fabricating etc.

I need a tutorial on the DQS system before proceeding.

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melba

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 26, 2017

I have of course been riding with normal street pattern since taking delivery of the SS, and I'm at peace with it, but I must admit that I would still like to reverse the shift pattern if possible as I am much more at home with the reverse pattern as I have basically always used it.
I have asked my dealer for any info he might be able to get from ducati on the micro switch but haven't heard any news yet. I am keen to take the bike to the track but would love to have the reverse shift before I do that.

Reactions: 1

amoslws

· #4 · Jul 26, 2017

keep us posted on the reverse shift @melba

amoslws

· #5 · Jul 26, 2017

Must say on some left turns at a track a reverse shift will be useful for 2nd and 3rd gears.

melba

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 27, 2017

Absolutely Amos - that was the original reason for reverse pattern as you would probably know

TheKaric

· #7 · Jul 27, 2017

So take all I am about to say with a grain of salt as I have not looked at the connector in person... (as I do not have an S version) could you just reverse it? (assuming there is enough length in the wire)

Looking at the manual the connection points seem to be the same. So right now, to downshift it pulls the switch "back". Whereas an upshift looks to push the switch "in". Couldn't the connector just be flipped when switching to the MotoGP style?

From the bikes' perspective is doesn't care if your stomping down or yanking up, it just cares that the DQS switch is being pushed in or out. So seems simple to be able to just match that to what your intentions are... the physical connection lengths notwithstanding.

Reactions: 1

mercer854

· #8 · Jul 27, 2017

TheKaric said:
So take all I am about to say with a grain of salt as I have not looked at the connector in person... (as I do not have an S version) could you just reverse it? (assuming there is enough length in the wire)

Looking at the manual the connection points seem to be the same. So right now, to downshift it pulls the switch "back". Whereas an upshift looks to push the switch "in". Couldn't the connector just be flipped when switching to the MotoGP style?

From the bikes' perspective is doesn't care if your stomping down or yanking up, it just cares that the DQS switch is being pushed in or out. So seems simple to be able to just match that to what your intentions are... the physical connection lengths notwithstanding.

That's as good as any other hypothesis at this point. I'm going to proceed on those lines and see what happens. 'Flipping' what Ducati calls the GEAR CONTROL LEVER that couples to the countershaft will invert the shift action, but a longer rod will need to replace the aft portion of the GEARBOX TRANSMISSION ROD ASSEMBLY, and I suppose the SHIFT DETECTOR portion of the GEARBOX TRANSMISSION ROD ASSEMBLY will need to be simply inverted so the SHIFT DETECTOR box will know upshift from downshift. Apparently the rod that goes into the forward portion of the assembly must have some free movement to trigger a sensor, both forwards and backwards, that sends a signal to the SHIFT DETECTOR box etc etc.

Of course just as folks have noted in other shifting threads the angles where the ROD ASSEMBLY joins the levers at each end are critical for precise shifting. I shoot for as close to 90˚ at each end, which means a longer rod and often a replacement or modified shift lever, so the lever can be at the correct angle for the foot (way down for GP Shift to avoid unintentional backshfting) while providing a right angle to the rod for full shift action.

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mercer854

· #9 · Jul 27, 2017

Now, having imagined all that, it may not be possible to attach a standard rod to the front of the GEAR CONTROL ROD ASSEMBLY. In that case GP Shift is gonna happen w/o the DQS until an aftermarket solution comes along.

Ducati must have something already on the shelf for its racebikes. Maybe that would work?

mercer854

· #10 · Jul 27, 2017

Possible solution?

mercer854 said:
Now, having imagined all that, it may not be possible to attach a standard rod to the front of the GEAR CONTROL ROD ASSEMBLY. In that case GP Shift is gonna happen w/o the DQS until an aftermarket solution comes along.

Ducati must have something already on the shelf for its racebikes. Maybe that would work?

Just measured a 2017 Pangale GEAR CONTROL ROD ASSEMBLY. The rod portion of the GEAR CONTROL ROD ASSEMBLY from a 1299 Panigale gives you almost exactly 2" more length. I would be surprised if it didn't thread in the same way as the SS. Also, the shift lever arm is located on the top, which would also give you GP Shift on the SS w/o inverting the fitting on the countershaft. Of course I would expect to invert the rod assbly itself to use the DQS, but it would be interesting to find out if the 1299 lever/heim joint/rod would interchange on the SS. Then there would the small matter of $$ for the 2 parts.

melba

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jul 27, 2017

mercer854 said:
Just measured a 2017 Pangale GEAR CONTROL ROD ASSEMBLY. The rod portion of the GEAR CONTROL ROD ASSEMBLY from a 1299 Panigale gives you almost exactly 2" more length. I would be surprised if it didn't thread in the same way as the SS. Also, the shift lever arm is located on the top, which would also give you GP Shift on the SS w/o inverting the fitting on the countershaft. Of course I would expect to invert the rod assbly itself to use the DQS, but it would be interesting to find out if the 1299 lever/heim joint/rod would interchange on the SS. Then there would the small matter of $$ for the 2 parts.

Thanks for all the input on this subject guys. I will check out the possibility of using the 1299 Panigale control rod through my dealer. I hope that Ducati might have a solution to this somewhere in the pipeline, but I must admit I am now quite used to the standard shift so it's not worrying me as much as it was when I first got the bike. My first few rides I was really having to "think" about gear shifting instead of it being instinctive.

mercer854

· #12 · Jul 28, 2017

melba said:
Thanks for all the input on this subject guys. I will check out the possibility of using the 1299 Panigale control rod through my dealer. I hope that Ducati might have a solution to this somewhere in the pipeline...

I just grabbed a cheap 2016 Panigale shift rod/pedal combo off ebay to try it out. :grin2: These new parts are not too expensive either.

My Ducati service guy didn't really know off the top of his head. They don't take all these machines apart just to see what fits other bikes...but the parts catalogue shows the same #for 2016/2017 1299s Also some of the attaching hardware is the same part# for the SS & 1299.

So in a few days we'll know if that works. Fingers crossed.

Reactions: 1

mercer854

· #13 · Jul 28, 2017

melba said:
...I must admit I am now quite used to the standard shift so it's not worrying me as much as it was when I first got the bike. My first few rides I was really having to "think" about gear shifting instead of it being instinctive.

I switch back and forth between bikes regularly with no problem, but it's important to set the shift lever position so an UPshift is the default motion either way. But on the track or for any spirited riding GP Shift feels most intuitive to me.

melba

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jul 28, 2017

mercer854 said:
I just grabbed a cheap 2016 Panigale shift rod/pedal combo off ebay to try it out. :grin2: These new parts are not too expensive either.

My Ducati service guy didn't really know off the top of his head. They don't take all these machines apart just to see what fits other bikes...but the parts catalogue shows the same #for 2016/2017 1299s Also some of the attaching hardware is the same part# for the SS & 1299.

So in a few days we'll know if that works. Fingers crossed.

Well done mate - you're a bloody legend. You've certainly got into this situation and I really appreciate your help. :smile2::smile2:

Reactions: 1

mercer854

· #15 · Jul 28, 2017

melba said:
Well done mate - you're a bloody legend. You've certainly got into this situation and I really appreciate your help. :smile2::smile2:

I figure this Forum allows us to team up and figure out how to get the best out of this bike. I appreciate what I got from you folks sharing your experience when I got on here. It helps me a lot, and I hope we'll ultimately give feedback to the dealers so new SS riders have a good experience.

My dealer is supportive of my questions and comments, and has specifically asked to know what we're learning. Ducati provides the dealers with solid training and support, but the debugging and optimization of this model will go beyond that basic structure, and smart dealers will want to keep their customers happy.

Hey, we enthusiasts are all in this together.

melba

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jul 29, 2017

mercer854 said:
I figure this Forum allows us to team up and figure out how to get the best out of this bike. I appreciate what I got from you folks sharing your experience when I got on here. It helps me a lot, and I hope we'll ultimately give feedback to the dealers so new SS riders have a good experience.

My dealer is supportive of my questions and comments, and has specifically asked to know what we're learning. Ducati provides the dealers with solid training and support, but the debugging and optimization of this model will go beyond that basic structure, and smart dealers will want to keep their customers happy.

Hey, we enthusiasts are all in this together.

Well said mate! I applaud your attitude :smile2::smile2:

mercer854

· #17 · Jul 29, 2017

From an other thread:

amoslws said:
Have a look at the electrical diagram. I am on the phone writing this so no chance of me booting up the laptop. My guess there are two signal wires and ground. I suspect you will be changing the rear sets too and not obly the changing order. Aftermarket I suspect will be a trial and error however 2nd hand pani might be available and work. Swop the signal wires around if you can open the transducer

In the absence of technical manuals I'm just guessing how the Shift Detector works. Could be a wifi thing, but I'm hoping some low-tech device inside the GEAR CONTROL ASSBLY physically moves to signal to the Detector that the shifter is moving Fore or Aft. That would mean the opposite if the shift arm were inverted, so if the ASSBLY were inverted as well the motion would be interpreted normally...if that's how it works. Should know soon.

mercer854

· #18 · Jul 29, 2017

O.K. A bit of complexity in shifting the DQS bike, and an idea of why even shifting w/the DQS OFF can feel a little indirect.

Not a lot of room to play with on the S model w/DQS. They call the linkage from the shift lever to the countershaft shift arm the GEARBOX TRANSMISSION ROD ASSEMBLY, which fits into the DETECTOR unit up front, and there must be damping spring inside the Detector ASSBLY to prevent the Rod from bouncing, which would cause the engine to cut out intermittently.

Close ups are of the Shift rod and Shift Detector in action. Images are, from left to right:

1)Shifter at rest.
2 On downshift the rod appears to lengthen as it extends from the Detector Assbly in front.
3)On upshift the rod appears to shorten as it plunges into the Detector.

The base model uses a conventional solid rod w/heim joints at either end called a GEARBOX DRIVING ROD. This makes for a direct mechanical linkage with slightly shorter throw since it doesn't have to move that small distance in/out of a Detector and no springs are involved.

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amoslws

· #19 · Jul 29, 2017

Another option is the rapid bike quickshifter accessory, unfortunately it requires at minimum rapid bike evo along with it.

mercer854

· #20 · Jul 29, 2017

amoslws said:
Another option is the rapid bike quickshifter accessory, unfortunately it requires at minimum rapid bike evo along with it.

Not familiar. What is rapid bike? Link?

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